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#1 Guest_Anonymous_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 09:16 AM

Hi all,

I have been a lurker here for a while. The game interested me quite a bit and so I was quite intrigued to see what each person's perspective was, through the medium of writing.

I have noticed that some quite promising writers have left, notably Nyx, Zan, Lara and Weyoun.

I have noticed also the ridiculous notion of certain people acting as if they are a kind of mother hen, and the way certain people defer to them! The way Mutant Mike sucks up to Luned and Silrana makes me physically ill. He may as well polish their shoes while he is at it. I find this particularly offensive because with this attitude they are putting off other budding writers, even though their writing is only quite average (It seems as though they are writing for an audience of preschoolers - eg the irrational fear of bats, really. Also the lack of imagination in characterisation, ie using game dialogue (A Cappella) - It conveys no foresight and feelings of the character ).

Thankfully this is offset by some writing that actually tries to convey not just an idea but a feeling, emotion etc. Namely writings by such people as Devon, Nyx, Zan, Darkmistress, Jeannette and Justen.

Really, the whole 'we are the leaders' attitude should stop. This is a free forum for writing, so nobody should feel that they have to defer to the certain 'rules' of what is acceptable and not! If the views of these 'key' figures were accepted as gospel, then there would not be any creative variety in the stories. We may as well just go and play the game, if that is the only dialogue and characterisation we see.

I hope that any new writers who see this will have the courage to write as they feel and to not be afraid of what might be *frowned upon* by the those who consider them above the rest of the board.

Sorry all, but I just couldn't stand it any longer.

-HD


#2 Guest_Oyster Girl_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 11:10 AM

My initial reaction to this is "Do Not Feed the Energy Creature." But I have a feeling that some of this needs to be addressed before this community melts down.

> I have noticed that some quite promising writers have left, notably Nyx,

> Zan, Lara and Weyoun.

Weyoun is still here and by his own statement taking a break to avoid burning out. Lara has had a case of writer's block for some time, much to the disappointment of many of us.

Nyx, well, the last I saw of her was the Aerie mess, when I'm sorry to say she was pushing some buttons and I tried to stop it before it reached a point where my temper would get the better of me. There have been repeated attempts to check on her; I'm assured she does this sometimes when she's writing and, having no way to physically check on her, I have to trust that and hope we see more of her in the future.

zan's network problems are legendary, and she has told me in the past to assume that's the cause if she drops off suddenly. Again, I have to hope that's the problem (or, perhaps, uni) and that we'll all get our Kaleidoscopes fix sometime soon.

Assuming you've actually been in contact with either and are not just a troll, please ask them to email me.

> I have noticed also the ridiculous notion of certain people acting as if

> they are a kind of mother hen, and the way certain people defer to them!

> The way Mutant Mike sucks up to Luned and Silrana makes me physically ill.

You know what? This crap makes me physically ill.

You don't like a particular writer? Don't read them.

I've long said that we desperately need a killfile capability here, but the closest we can come is paying attention to the author of a post and not reading it. It takes self-discipline, yes, but it can be done. It doesn't take long to learn which stories you don't like (and which threads have degenerated into fluff) and simply not scroll down past the title/author block.

> He may as well polish their shoes while he is at it. I find this

> particularly offensive because with this attitude they are putting off

> other budding writers, even though their writing is only quite average (It

> seems as though they are writing for an audience of preschoolers - eg the

> irrational fear of bats, really.

Really? And your degrees in psychology are from what universities?

I suggest you sit yourself in a library and read through the literature on Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome before you start throwing such comments around.

As someone who suffers from precisely that affliction, I found Tisha's response to the trauma of her capture and to witnessing Dynaheir's torture spot on.

> Also the lack of imagination in characterisation, ie using game dialogue

> (A Cappella) - It conveys no foresight and feelings of the character ).

You don't like it, don't read it. Personally, I enjoy picking out the subtle hints at possible future twists in A Capella. Some game situations can't be avoided in a retelling of the game story; it's what a writer does around that retelling that determines whether I'm hooked.

> Thankfully this is offset by some writing that actually tries to convey

> not just an idea but a feeling, emotion etc. Namely writings by such

> people as Devon, Nyx, Zan, Darkmistress, Jeannette and Justen.

Then don't rant at the rest of us. Post responses to their threads.

Constructive support is a much, much better way of expressing yourself than a flame. And, at least in my case, your having contributed such in the recent past would have made me far more likely to take you seriously now.

> Really, the whole 'we are the leaders' attitude should stop.

?

The only time that pops up are when we are getting dangerously close to a flame war or a troll shows up. If someone takes me standing up for myself as a grab for power, then they need to look to their own preconceived notions. I certainly have nothing in mind beyond either self-defense or defusing a situation before it becomes an all-out war, and it is my belief that the others here who have been targeted with such accusations in the past are operating out of the same motives.

> This is a free forum for writing, so nobody should feel that they have to

> defer to the certain 'rules' of what is acceptable and not! If the views of

> these 'key' figures were accepted as gospel, then there would not be any

> creative variety in the stories.

Might I suggest that these rules you are objecting to are a figment of your imagination?

This isn't high school. There's no grand conspiracy to keep people in line here. We write what we enjoy writing; if certain of our group are more prolific than others, that's a matter of personal style.

Yes, we see a lot of Luned and Silrana. They write at an unbelievable pace. (Don't argue with me, ladies. For someone who usually can't finish an on-topic story before the quiz ends, it is unbelievable.)

> We may as well just go and play the game,

> if that is the only dialogue and characterisation we see.

Then I suggest that, if you are so unhappy with the Attic, that would be a better use of your time.

Better yet, create your own fic board and make your own rules. Then you can exclude anyone you don't like. That's the nice thing about the internet; you're not stuck with having to socialize with certain people if you don't want to.

> I hope that any new writers who see this will have the courage to write as

> they feel and to not be afraid of what might be *frowned upon* by the

> those who consider them above the rest of the board.

The only thing "frowned upon" here is graphically sexual material. By agreement, following considerable open discussion on the board, we try to limit the stories to a PG-13 level.

I personally don't care for the heavily angsty stories that proliferate in other fandoms. I don't care for certain subjects and certain writing styles, and I avoid those among pro writers as avidly as I do among fanfic. I also have a life outside of the Attic, and it's not exactly low-maintenance.

If someone is taking my choice not to comment on something as an indication that I think they shouldn't write it, I can't help that. They are trying to give me control over their self-esteem; I'm certainly not trying to take it. I don't want the job.

> Sorry all, but I just couldn't stand it any longer.

Neither can I. I've had it well past over my head with this sort of thing, and previous versions of it have made me seriously consider either setting up a rival board, along a different model, or dropping out completely.

I have reached the point of being ready to swear off making serious comments on anyone's stories, since it now appears that certain of us must not only provide feedback for everyone but it must also be of a certain length and depth of critique.

The thing is, I like our community. I miss the people who have to drop out, and I celebrate when they come back. I would hate to watch it come apart, but the more I see of this sort of resentment the more I worry.

However. I am who I am. I'm not going to swallow my anger when someone pushes me, just to keep from rocking the boat. I'm not going to waltz though here pretending that I just love everything and everyone here. That will only create resentments of a different kind, and you wouldn't like me when I'm truly angry.


Blue Screen

#3 Guest_Mutant Mike_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 12:13 PM

> Hi all,

> I have been a lurker here for a while. The game interested me quite a bit

> and so I was quite intrigued to see what each person's perspective was,

> through the medium of writing.

Same reason we are all here, I 'm sure... Not to mention a creative outlet for those of us with voices in our heads.

> I have noticed that some quite promising writers have left, notably Nyx,

> Zan, Lara and Weyoun.

They're around here somewhere... Lara has posted recently (although the dreaded writer's block is persistent), and Weyoun just ran off a 5-or-so part series and is rechrarging the creative batteries. Nyx and zan may have been beset by the Real Life bug and had to step out for a while... I'm hoping they'll be back, and I'm fairly confident they will be.

> I have noticed also the ridiculous notion of certain people acting as if

> they are a kind of mother hen, and the way certain people defer to them!

> The way Mutant Mike sucks up to Luned and Silrana makes me physically ill.

Sorry, are my chicken feathers showing? Oh, and here's a bucket for you...

> He may as well polish their shoes while he is at it.

Oh, come on... really.... You don't polish suede! (It gets buffed and carefully cleaned... Yours are almost ready, Silrana!)

Look, I respond to every one of their stories because I like their stories! That is not to say that I don't like anyone else's. I like to have fun when I post, and I point out what I like about a particular piece. Where Luned and Silrana are concerned, I like the characters they have developed and I like their style of writing. If you feel queasy reading my posts, then don't read them!

I find this

> particularly offensive because with this attitude they are putting off

> other budding writers, even though their writing is only quite average (It

> seems as though they are writing for an audience of preschoolers - eg the

> irrational fear of bats, really.

"Irrational"? Many people have fears that others don't even flinch at... And this was even a bit of characterization that DIDN'T come from the game... Which contradicts:

Also the lack of imagination in

> characterisation, ie using game dialogue (A Cappella) - It conveys no

> foresight and feelings of the character ).

The game is what we have based a lot of the stories on. Using game dialogue - in my opinion - is fun because it starts us all off from familiar ground. And there is plenty of writing before and after that creates a unique perspective on each story.

> Thankfully this is offset by some writing that actually tries to convey

> not just an idea but a feeling, emotion etc. Namely writings by such

> people as Devon, Nyx, Zan, Darkmistress, Jeannette and Justen.

I have to agree that all these writers - and more - produce great stories that are a lot of fun...

> Really, the whole 'we are the leaders' attitude should stop.

Who are the leaders? Me? Luned? O_Girl? The only real "leader" of this board is Leo, and that's because it's his board. As for the rest of us, it could be said that we are all leaders... of our own stories. If I want to praise/thank/award someone for providing some escapism for a brief time, I'm not going to ask you or anyone else for permission. If you feel someone here is being too much of a 'leader', I suggest you ask yourself why you are letting them lead you around.

This is a

> free forum for writing, so nobody should feel that they have to defer to

> the certain 'rules' of what is acceptable and not!

First of all, nothing is free. This board is run by Leo and his whim. If something gets posted that he doesn't want to have on the board he can remove it at will. As for the 'rules', these are guidelines we try to adhere to so that anyone can enjoy the stories we write, mainly because of Leo, but also because we have agreed to them. If you are looking for something... else, I'm sure there are several sites out there that can accomodate.

If the views of these

> 'key' figures were accepted as gospel, then there would not be any

> creative variety in the stories. We may as well just go and play the game,

> if that is the only dialogue and characterisation we see.

What 'views'? Grammer and punctuation? That's hardly a view... Style? In matters of style I have noted that people try to stress that it is their opinion most of the time.

> I hope that any new writers who see this will have the courage to write as

> they feel and to not be afraid of what might be *frowned upon* by the

> those who consider them above the rest of the board.

I don't know what to make of this statement... New writers have been welcomed around here ever since I came here, and I'm sure they were long before that. If some writers don't get many responses to their work, it shouldn't be taken personally. I tried to respond to every story that came up on the board and found that I didn't have the time for anything else. Everyone has to deal with RL from time to time and in varying degrees. If you feel a writer has posted a good story, then post a comment and tell them! Don't leave it up to this board's "leaders", whoever they may be.

> Sorry all, but I just couldn't stand it any longer.

I didn't know you had been standing there...

> -HD

Come on, people... It's a game, we can for the most part agree that we have had fun playing it. We came here to have fun...

Let the fun resume.


#4 Guest_Silrana_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 12:29 PM

I hesitated to respond to this, seeing as I am one of the people attacked, but there were some points I felt I should address.

> I have noticed that some quite promising writers have left, notably Nyx,

> Zan, Lara and Weyoun.

They've left? I haven't seen any posts saying 'I'm never coming back'. It might surprise you that most of us here have actual lives outside the board, and there are many reasons a person might have to take a break from posting. I have no idea why any of them would leave, since their stories are always well-received and thoroughly enjoyed.

> I have noticed also the ridiculous notion of certain people acting as if

> they are a kind of mother hen, and the way certain people defer to them!

And just who are these people you are refering to? I have never noticed anyone defering to me on anything. I give my opinion just like anyone else, and everyone is free to agree or disagree. I have in the past been called the board den mother, but I always assumed that was meant affectionately. Was I mistaken?

> The way Mutant Mike sucks up to Luned and Silrana makes me physically ill.

> He may as well polish their shoes while he is at it.

All right, this is what made me post. If you don't like my writing, fine. If you don't like ME, fine. But how *dare* you criticize someone for being complimentary to another writer's post? How dare you insinuate that people have no right to have fun, joke, and be friendly with another person just because you don't like them? This labels you as a jerk of the highest order. I will have a civil discussion with you on all other points, but for this there is no forgiveness. You crossed the line.

>I find this

> particularly offensive because with this attitude they are putting off

> other budding writers, even though their writing is only quite average (It

> seems as though they are writing for an audience of preschoolers - eg the

> irrational fear of bats, really. Also the lack of imagination in

> characterisation, ie using game dialogue (A Cappella) - It conveys no

> foresight and feelings of the character ).

As I said, if you don't like my writing, fine, dandy, whatever. Feel free not to read my stories. I write as a hobby for my own amusement, not because I have a desperate need for the approval of others. If other people enjoy my work, then it brightens my day to know that I have given someone a few minutes of pleasure. But my ego doesn't live or die by the Attic.

In defense of Luned, you either have only read a later part that simply refers to fear and have never read the earlier parts that explain it, or you have no experience with real life. A fear brought about by weeks, if not months, of torture and pain is not an irrational one.

> Thankfully this is offset by some writing that actually tries to convey

> not just an idea but a feeling, emotion etc. Namely writings by such

> people as Devon, Nyx, Zan, Darkmistress, Jeannette and Justen.

I enjoy their stories as well, and if you prefer their work, then by all means read it and comment on it. Of course, I suppose we won't know if you will, since you were so brave as to not put an email address on your post. It's always nice to see someone standing up for their convictions.

> Really, the whole 'we are the leaders' attitude should stop.

Please, point out the posts where it appears, since I would be interested to know precisely who the leaders of the board are. Except for Leo, none of us have any power or authority here. As I said before, I express opinions, and others are free to agree or disagree. You obviously haven't been around long enough to remember the roll-playing discussion, where I expressed an opinion that a great many people disagreed with. Did I hold any grudges? No. Some of the people who disagreed with me the strongest are people I respect and admire. I certainly am not some junior high kid to throw a tantrum just because others held a different opinion on a subject.

> This is a

> free forum for writing, so nobody should feel that they have to defer to

> the certain 'rules' of what is acceptable and not!

The only rules we have here are the rules of courtesy and common decency. We do our best not to be offensive, and if a story comes close to the line, we post warnings so that others do not have to accidently be exposed to something they find objectionable. If you are refering to the earlier discussion, you will recall that the only universally accepted rule was that we don't think sexually explicit material should be posted here, since we do have young people on the board. The bikini rule that was mentioned was simply my own personal rule as to how I determine if I have gone too far when I'm writing a story. It is not a graven in stone rule of the Attic. It is merely a guideline that some of us follow to avoid offending others.

>If the views of these

> 'key' figures were accepted as gospel, then there would not be any

> creative variety in the stories. We may as well just go and play the game,

> if that is the only dialogue and characterisation we see.

Leo, just when was anyone here awarded the right to screen other people's stories and give their stamp of approval? I didn't get that email.

Oh, and since you attack Luned and myself specifically, please feel free to fire up Infinity Explorer and point out such things as Moira being killed by the 'Buried Alive quest' gang, or Boo being a dragon in disguise. Oh, and please tell me where I got the dialogue lines where Cor insinuates Anomen is gay, or Anomen says that Cor gave his mother VD.

> I hope that any new writers who see this will have the courage to write as

> they feel and to not be afraid of what might be *frowned upon* by the

> those who consider them above the rest of the board.

Like I said, the only thing that has been "frowned upon" is sexually explicit stories. If you feel a burning need to write or read porn, I can direct you to a number of web sites.

> Sorry all, but I just couldn't stand it any longer.

> -HD

And I feel the same. I will not apologize for other people liking my work, and I will not apologize for commenting on who I like when I like. I read many things I sincerely enjoy, but do not have the time to comment on them. I do my best, but RL is unforgiving at times.

Just in the past month, I have had to deal with a smashed windshield, a bad business trip, an injured arm, I was nearly shot (by another law enforcement person, no less!), I attended the funeral of a woman I've known and worked with for fourteen years, and I had an electical connection on one of my work computers go bad, frying hard drives and taking weeks of work with them. And through all that, I have managed to keep up on the board and work on AC.

If someone is offended I didn't comment on their story, I'm sorry, but I have a life too. I do the best I can, but I have a demanding profession, a husband, a home, and two beautiful daughters. The egos of people on an internet board just don't make the cut on my priority list. I'm sorry if that sounds cold, but this is supposed to be a hobby, not another job.

I love this board, and I really like the people on it. This is supposed to be a place to have fun, not stir up these petty jeaousies. This is the kind of behavior I remember from junior high (for our foreign readers, age 13-15). Nobody except Leo runs this board, and the best way to be respected is to treat others with respect, not spew anonymous venom.



#5 Guest_Anonymous_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 12:36 PM

Uh, I'm new myself and I'll say I don't feel that way at all. If I have problems it's only because I'm hyper-critical and perfectionistic.

Your post feels... weird. Just weird.


#6 Guest_Anonymous_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 12:51 PM

Hey Folks,

It looks as if we have someone trolling for fish, and they apparently got some.

I'm not going to respond to the specifics of the above post, even if there may be some valid points, they were presented crassly and with no tact. There is no need for personal attacks regardless of one's opionion on something.

This is a typicall troll I see on many other message boards I frequent. I say we just shoot a flame arrrow at them and let them melt into the ooze from whence they came.

We all write the way we write, and respond as we see fit. I really wish the above person, had stated thier case less...um.... vehemently. It really wasn't necessary.

And if anyone sucks up, its me. I'm the consumate brown-noser. :)

Graciously in need of more coffee.

Kyricus.



#7 Guest_Devon_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 12:51 PM

*takes a deep breath*

Oh. Ouch.

Apart from that, I am speechless.

No, actually, I am not.

Does everyone remember when this board used to be fun? When I first arrived on the Attic, months and months ago, people were all really cheery and happy, and there was a really fantastic atmosphere. Unfortunately, this feeling seems to have been lost somewhere along the way, and I'd really, *really* like to get it back.

Let me stick my humble toe in the freezing water a bit: there certainly seem to have been some undercurrents lately, and some people have been quiet and have disappeared. A lot of the newer writers have disappeared, but as to why, I cannot say. There have been a few semi-flames and flare ups recently, and I can't help wondering if that might be what Humpty here is referring to (mind you, we dont know how long he/she has been lurking for, so I can't say), but it is one of those strange things.

This whole thing has made me feel really sick and bad, and I don't want everyone's enjoyment of the board to suffer. The Attic inspired me to write, and I don't to lose that simple joy.

So, perhaps we should try to get along? Of course, people make friends with other like-minded people (and that may explain some of the cliquishness), but that doesn't mean that we have to snipe at each other.

So, I am sticking my neck out and asking for some tolerance and, er, *niceness*.

-Devon


#8 Laufey

Posted 25 August 2001 - 12:55 PM

Well, well. Having now taken part of Your immense insight, I must admit to being hesitant. Troll, or not troll? Just in case you're not, I'll actually take the time to respond.

> I have noticed that some quite promising writers have left, notably Nyx,

> Zan, Lara and Weyoun.

They have? Did they tell you this? Are you a personal friend of theirs? Weyoun has posted several stories lately, Lara has been around as well. Not sure about Nyx and Zan, but I certainly haven't seen either of them declare that they are leaving. There is such a thing as Real Life, you know. I was absent myself for about two months, then I came back. I hope they'll come back soon as well.

> I have noticed also the ridiculous notion of certain people acting as if

> they are a kind of mother hen, and the way certain people defer to them!

> The way Mutant Mike sucks up to Luned and Silrana makes me physically ill.

So what you're saying is basically this. If you don't like a certain story, then nobody else is allowed to like it either? Is that it? Since you obviously have a problem with certain authors and their style of writing I am going to give you some helpful advice, free of charge. Don't. Read. Them. Even a preschooler should be able to remember that. Nobody can be expected to like everything they read, but most of us soon learn to pass on the things we don't like.

(It

> seems as though they are writing for an audience of preschoolers - eg the

> irrational fear of bats, really.

Actually, plenty of people have 'irrational' fears. They're called 'phobias', though in this particular case Post Traumatic Stress Disorder would perhaps be more accurate.

Also the lack of imagination in

> characterisation, ie using game dialogue (A Cappella) - It conveys no

> foresight and feelings of the character ).

Again, if you don't like it, why read it?

> Thankfully this is offset by some writing that actually tries to convey

> not just an idea but a feeling, emotion etc. Namely writings by such

> people as Devon, Nyx, Zan, Darkmistress, Jeannette and Justen.

Then by all means review their stories and tell them that. And as for the stories you don't like, I suggest either skipping them altogether or offer some constructive criticism, not just flames. By the way, just to clear things up. So many stories are posted that it's hard to keep up sometimes. So if I personally don't comment on a certain story that doesn't mean I don't like it, but there are only so many hours in the day.

> Really, the whole 'we are the leaders' attitude should stop.

So far as I know, the only leader here is Leo. It is his board after all, in case you missed that.

> I hope that any new writers who see this will have the courage to write as

> they feel and to not be afraid of what might be *frowned upon* by the

> those who consider them above the rest of the board.

Now, this part really surprised me the most. Since first posting here I've always felt very welcome, and I've never seen a newbie being badly treated. Care to provide an example?

> Sorry all, but I just couldn't stand it any longer.

On this one thing, I can agree with you. I can't stand this any more either.


Rogues do it from behind.

#9 Guest_Anonymous_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 12:57 PM

> I don't know what to make of this statement... New writers have been

> welcomed around here ever since I came here, and I'm sure they were long

> before that. If some writers don't get many responses to their work, it

> shouldn't be taken personally

Mike, I agree with you, but for some people it's hard to not take a lack of responses personally. I know for myself, I get a little disappointed when I see a lot of views, but no responses to a story I post. But I get over it. Then again I've been posting to message boards for well over 10 years, so not much gets my nose bent out of shape any longer. (Other than a punch to the face of course.)

Perhaps this person is a new poster, perhaps just insecure. I can see how they could feel the way they do. Still and yet, the personal attacks were uncalled for.

Mike, unleash the Dogs!!!

Tootles,

Kyricus.



#10 Guest_Oyster Girl_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 02:03 PM

> Hey Folks,

> It looks as if we have someone trolling for fish, and they apparently got

> some.

*nods* As I said at the very beginning of my response, I was very tempted to dismiss this as trolling, go to my garage and take it out on a pell.

One reason I didn't: he does bring up some of the undercurrents that have made the Attic a less than pleasant place at times, and I felt it was past time to start a dialog about it. I was hoping to springboard this tripe into that dialog.

Another, of course, is that my standard way of dealing with a troll is to attempt a reasonably calm refutation of his comments and then walk away. For good or ill, I'm very conscious of how ignoring such plays to lurkers, and I prefer to nip misinformation and innuendo in the bud.

My strongest reaction is a suspicion that this is an attempt to deflect some of us to a rival board. If people are unhappy enough here for that to work, then we desperately need to air out some issues.

> We all write the way we write, and respond as we see fit.

Unfortunately, there have been complaints about the response rates, and yes, people take it personally. I take it personally, and I know better than anyone the outside reasons that can prevent someone from posting.

Equally unfortunately, some of those complaints have been worded such that we, the more active participants, feel that we are expected to bolster everyone else's ego. I keep reminding myself that it's really a plea for the lurkers to come out and play, but that doesn't always stop me from feeling rather singled out by a demand for attention.


Blue Screen

#11 Arcalian

Posted 25 August 2001 - 02:07 PM

As one of the "budding writers" you refer to, I must ask; what the blue blazes are you talking about?

I have been posted other places, in non-bg stories that is, and even three times made it into fan fiction small press (again, non-BG). Mostly, however, I am published on a mailing list.

I love that mailing list and it's members to death, but they hardly ever, ever, ever, give me any feedback. I've been writing stories there for over two years, and not gotten as much feedback as I have here for the first five parts of To Prove his Worth. Sad, but true.

As for all the who-is-doing-what-to-whom stuff you site, I can only say, first, that I haven't seen any of it yet (though granted I've only been here for about two weeks). Second, welcome to planet Earth. On the net or off of it, people interact in ways you will not always agree with. That's life. People are social or antisocial, and it impacts other people, including you, like it or not.

The road to the abyss may be paved with good intentions, but it is those with bad intentions that race down that road as fast as they can.

#12 Guest_Arelius_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 02:44 PM

> Does everyone remember when this board used to be fun?

Yeah, but that lasted for days, I think. One of the first things I remember was when Silvermoon, the original Attic host, posted a response. Some jerk got all over her cause he didn't like that she had a good slant to everything and she never came back. Without her, there never would have been an Attic. There were a few other flames, and about every month, another huge flame war errupted. Anytime you get people together, there's bound to be some strife and differing opinion. Going to happen, and getting it out in the open has its benefits too. Better than people sniping each other behind their backs.

Dumpty's comments are way out of line though. Lets go down and find out what he has contributed to the board. Oh, I see. NOTHING. So his basic argument should mean nothing to anyone here who is contributing. If he doesn't like it, then later to him. It's not like we'll miss him or anything. People who don't contribute to the process have no right to complain in my book.

> and happy, and there was a really fantastic atmosphere. Unfortunately,

> this feeling seems to have been lost somewhere along the way, and I'd

> really, *really* like to get it back.

It's there for you to make it that way, and the best way is to just ignore crap like this. Having a heated discussion between authors on the best way to deal with a story is one thing, responding to some non-contributing asshole is another.

> Let me stick my humble toe in the freezing water a bit: there certainly

> seem to have been some undercurrents lately, and some people have been

> quiet and have disappeared.

RL is a bear sometimes. I'm a lot quieter and don't have anywhere near the time to write, read or respond like I once had. Plus, things do move on, and there are new stories and games out there to be writen and played. I'm sure a lot of others are in the same boat.

> This whole thing has made me feel really sick and bad, and I don't want

> everyone's enjoyment of the board to suffer. The Attic inspired me to

> write, and I don't to lose that simple joy.

And that's what it's all about. No one here should ever be afraid to post anything, including Silrana, Mike, or anyone else. If you don't like it, don't read it. And geting on people for responding is pointless.

People who spend their lives comparing themselves to others are not going to have a happy life, so in the end, they're the ones who lose. Get a life, comes to mind. If they had one, they wouldn't be worried about others. The Attic is not a professional board, and shouldn't be compared to one. There's still better writing here than some of what I've seen on the bookshelves in stores for sale.

> So, I am sticking my neck out and asking for some tolerance and, er,

> *niceness*.

Gotch'a covered. :)

Mark


#13 Guest_Silrana_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 02:44 PM

> Unfortunately, there have been complaints about the response rates, and

> yes, people take it personally. I take it personally, and I know better

> than anyone the outside reasons that can prevent someone from posting.

> Equally unfortunately, some of those complaints have been worded such that

> we, the more active participants, feel that we are expected to bolster

> everyone else's ego. I keep reminding myself that it's really a plea for

> the lurkers to come out and play, but that doesn't always stop me from

> feeling rather singled out by a demand for attention.

And some of us have been made outright targets. It's hard to just brush things off when you repeatedly see sentiments along the lines of 'this would be a great board if Silrana would just stop stealing the comments that are rightfully ours'.

I agree that there are a lot of terrific writers on the board, and everybody deserves to have a chance to show what they can do. But after time after time over the last few months of seeing 'now this isn't a slam against Silrana', or 'some people get too many comments, like Silrana', or 'I like Silrana's stories *BUT*'... I can't help but wonder if I'm really welcome here.

I'm seriously considering taking AC off the board and just emailing it to the people who want to see it, and they can email me their comments. If they want to see other people's comments maybe I could set up some kind of autoresponder. Then, after the comments are done I can post it to the Novels page. This is not fishing for compliments, I know who my friends are on the board and they don't need to post in my defense. But I've seen this attitude one too many times, and I'm tired of it. I just thought I was providing a little fun, but evidently some people don't see it that way.



#14 Guest_Strange_Girl_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 03:27 PM

Ooooooohh... lookie here; we've got ourselves a troll *gets out the acid-arrows, and aimes at the troll who is too chicken to add it's e-mail adress*

It is very temping to use Dennis Leary's special form of theraphy on you, but since there may be minors present I won't. Most people are here to read and post stories, and to have fun and enjoy themselves, if you don't like it you're welcome to find somewhere else to hang around.

*fires acid-arrow at the covardly toll's arse and walks away*



#15 Guest_Anonymous_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 03:40 PM

I just have a few quick things to say to this, but I refuse to get too caught up in any of it.

> I have noticed that some quite promising writers have left, notably Nyx,

> Zan, Lara and Weyoun.

This has been covered. I am still here- soon my school will start again, and yes, I do have writer's block, but I've been hard-pressed to try and get rid of it, since I've been busy. Weyoun is still here, as you can see. Zan is probably busy with her school, or whatnot, and last time Nyx had this problem her internet had been cut off for a while. But who knows?

A lot of other promising writers have left, too. Arelius has been silent, story-wise, for example (and I must admit, I do miss Nasty). Also, Ryan, and kevtg and Daedalus have seem to have vanished. Kev came back, and maybe he will again. Unless you're talking to them off the board, you can't say for sure.

Final word on the subject? Real life. Ok, that's two words...

> I have noticed also the ridiculous notion of certain people acting as if

> they are a kind of mother hen, and the way certain people defer to them!

> The way Mutant Mike sucks up to Luned and Silrana makes me physically ill.

> He may as well polish their shoes while he is at it. I find this

> particularly offensive because with this attitude they are putting off

> other budding writers, even though their writing is only quite average

*deep breath* Well... this actually does bother me, so I'll say my piece and leave, because I don't want to insult anybody. Some of the writers here have been here for a good deal of time, maybe even since the Attic started running. They, of course, are veterans (you could say) and people look up to them, in some weird psychological way. I don't know. I judge people's work by their *work* and not by their longevity on the board. Being here a while doesn't make you better. Writing, and posting, and considering any critiques people give does make you better. I've seen people who wrote wonderful pieces before, but they've yet moved on to other things, and their newer work doesn't seem to be as entertaining as their old stuff. This, of course, is purely personal preference, and I do hope no offense is taken. Just my two cents on the matter, because I seem to find that these 'older Atticers' intimidate newly de-lurked posters. Maybe it's the quality of writing, maybe it's the fans they've built up over time, who knows?

That's another subject I would get into but won't. There is no reason to feel intimidated!! If you don't post, you won't know how good you really are. I remeber how terrible I thought my first few stories were, and they were very well recieved (with a bit of suggestions to help improve, as is always the case). If it's criticism that worries you (and I do know some people who are bothered by having their mistakes pointed out, regardless of how small- I know I am) well... I don't know what to say to that. Don't post, maybe. Or find a lighter board where praise is the name of the game. Ultimately, we're here to share ideas and help improve on our skills, for whatever reason. You're never going to be perfect, but with help you can get pretty damn close.

Oh, and one more thing: Don't flame Silrana. I did that once, unintentionally (well, at the time I must admit it was rather intentional, but it was also incredibly stupid) and I'm sorry for it. She's just as hard a worker as anyone out there, and is also a very good writer- and because of that probably also intimidating, as the case may be. You know... on that note, don't flame ANYBODY. Even this message here will most likely offend someone, though that's not my intentions at all. *shrug* People take things too personally, I find, but they can't help it. Too few responses, a story they don't like, a writer that that is just a tad too popular for their liking... whatever. It's all offensive. I've learned to deal with it. I know, I'm here to have FUN. And have fun I shall!! And nuts who can't stand one or two odd stories aren't going to ruin MY fun!

> Sorry all, but I just couldn't stand it any longer.

In a weird, twisted way I'm glad this came up. Sometimes people need to speak their mind on things. But still, you could have been a little lighter in your accusations. "Those who shall remain nameless" is always fine to use. I've been here long enough to consider most of these people friends of mine, even if I don't read everybodys stories (it's all that fluff) so if you say something about Luned or Mike or whoever, I'm going to be offended, too.

Let this be a lesson to those who cannot handle difference in opinion and creativity.


#16 Weyoun

Posted 25 August 2001 - 03:54 PM

Hmmm, I feel like I should have kept my mouth shut on this subject, but some things were said that I couldn't simply ignore.

> I have noticed that some quite promising writers have left, notably Nyx,

> Zan, Lara and Weyoun.

Well, thank you.

But just because they have stopped posting stories for a while, doesn't mean they're not still here. I'm here every day, responding. I just took a week off writing to relax, sort out my story-lines and play a little Dominion Wars... :)

Lara is still hanging around, replying to some of the stories. Zan and Nyx have disappeared earlier, but have always returned. For all we know, they might be on holidays! We all have Real-Lives, you know? ;)

> I have noticed also the ridiculous notion of certain people acting as if

> they are a kind of mother hen, and the way certain people defer to them!

> The way Mutant Mike sucks up to Luned and Silrana makes me physically ill.

> He may as well polish their shoes while he is at it.

When did this happen? I never noticed this. Let me just say that I love both A Cappella and Acquired Tastes and devour all parts like a rabid shark! In fact, I devour ALL the stories here like a rabid shark! By your standards, everybody who responds to Luned's and Silrana's stories would be a toady? I'm sorry but that argument just isn't true!

> I find this

> particularly offensive because with this attitude they are putting off

> other budding writers, even though their writing is only quite average (It

> seems as though they are writing for an audience of preschoolers - eg the

> irrational fear of bats, really. Also the lack of imagination in

> characterisation, ie using game dialogue (A Cappella) - It conveys no

> foresight and feelings of the character ).

Have you never seen documentaries on American POW's in Vietnam? How those poor people still have trouble with that horror and torture to this very day? Luned's portrayal was spot on.

> Really, the whole 'we are the leaders' attitude should stop. This is a

> free forum for writing, so nobody should feel that they have to defer to

> the certain 'rules' of what is acceptable and not! If the views of these

> 'key' figures were accepted as gospel, then there would not be any

> creative variety in the stories. We may as well just go and play the game,

> if that is the only dialogue and characterisation we see.

Leaders?

Rules?

Key figures?

Gospel?

Now I have been posting here for 15 quizzes and almost five months now and I haven't noticed ANY of the things you said here. We're just people having fun sharing stories, comments and chatting! We're here to have fun!

You know, I feel you might be reading too much into this. Even Freud said that: 'Sometimes a rock is just a rock.'

And the using of game dialog sounds perfectly excellent to me. Game dialog is often wonderful writing in itself, just look at the Viconia-romance! But someone who uses game dialog, always puts elements of his/herself in it as well, giving it an extra dimension. Writing in a story and in a game is a very different thing, you see.

> I hope that any new writers who see this will have the courage to write as

> they feel and to not be afraid of what might be *frowned upon* by the

> those who consider them above the rest of the board.

Ermmm, I get the feeling common sense rules here. I don't particulary care about what might be frowned upon here, but I will never write anything excessively gory because I don't like it, nor anything sexually explicit because it is simply not my thing.

And a lot of writers here have written about very mature subject, and there was only one case (Jonna's story) which had some minor admonishment. But frowned-upon? I never saw that... And I've been a lurker for a pretty long time, I might add.

> Sorry all, but I just couldn't stand it any longer.

I repect your opinion, of course, but you could have brought it in a more Friendly fashion. I consider the wonderful people on the Attic my friends. And is there is one thing I cannot stand, it's someone insulting my friends with undue cause. Mutant Mike, Silrana and Luned did NOT deserve to be targets in your rant!

There's only one, un-written rule here : Be nice!

And you have broken that rule, mr/mrs Dumpty.

---Weyoun

TnT Enhanced Edition: http://www.fanfictio...rds-and-Tempers

---
Sith Warrior - Master, I can sense your anger.

Darth Baras - A blind, comotose lobotomy-patient could sense my anger!

---

"The New Age? It's just the old age stuck in a microwave oven for fifteen seconds" - James Randi

#17 Guest_Oyster Girl_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 03:56 PM

> Just my two cents on the matter, because I seem to find that these 'older

> Atticers' intimidate newly de-lurked posters. Maybe it's the quality of

> writing, maybe it's the fans they've built up over time, who knows?

I dislike the word "intimidate" here, since it carries an implication of intent.

It's not the intent of any of the veterans to scare people away from contributing.

If we're talking about how scary it is to try to break into an already established group, then yes, I can agree. We all know that fear, and we try to dispell it when someone new drops in.


Blue Screen

#18 Guest_Anonymous_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 04:04 PM

> If we're talking about how scary it is to try to break into

> an already established group, then yes, I can agree. We all know that

> fear, and we try to dispell it when someone new drops in.

Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about. I should have been more clear. Too many words, too early in the morning...


#19 Guest_Strange_Girl_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 04:06 PM

> Unfortunately, there have been complaints about the response rates, and

> yes, people take it personally. I take it personally, and I know better

> than anyone the outside reasons that can prevent someone from posting.

> Equally unfortunately, some of those complaints have been worded such that

> we, the more active participants, feel that we are expected to bolster

> everyone else's ego. I keep reminding myself that it's really a plea for

> the lurkers to come out and play, but that doesn't always stop me from

> feeling rather singled out by a demand for attention.

Erm... please don't feel that way O-Girl, your comments are always appreciated, but I wouldn't dream of demanding them. To me, every comment I get is a nice surprise, and I appreciate them, but I don't expect people to give them. It is troubleing if this turns into a 'contest for comments'. Not everyone feels like they have a whole lot to contribute when it comes to in-dept critique, and it's not always easy to think of anything helpful and/or original to say. I don't always comment on stories I like because of that, and I assume others feel the same way. Besides, we all have real lives, and there is not always enough time to comment on everything. I think it is important that people consider that before getting upset about a lack of comments. We need to remind ourselves that we are here to have fun, before things starts to turn serious and people wish to leave because of it.

S_G


#20 Guest_Anonymous_*

Posted 25 August 2001 - 04:26 PM

> I'm seriously considering taking AC off the board and just emailing it to

> the people who want to see it, and they can email me their comments. If

> they want to see other people's comments maybe I could set up some kind of

> autoresponder. Then, after the comments are done I can post it to the

> Novels page. This is not fishing for compliments, I know who my friends

> are on the board and they don't need to post in my defense. But I've seen

> this attitude one too many times, and I'm tired of it. I just thought I

> was providing a little fun, but evidently some people don't see it that

> way.

Silrana,

I don't suggest you do this, it would just be giving in and letting the bad guy/gals win. I've never let myself be chased from any message board and I don't believe you should either. Your stories are well written, and I dare say, enjoyed by most of us here. It's your decision of course, but I think it would be a mistake, not only would the bad guys win, but it would be setting a bad precedent.

I don't usually let postings to message boards effect me too much. There's the old childhood saying I try to remember whenever I feel a bit pissed at someone's comments.

Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

They can only hurt if you allow them to, and I try never to allow them that pleasure.

Stick around, I know I'm not running anywhere, or away from anyone.

Kyricus

(who is at a loss for a tag line at the moment)






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