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A Cappella Part 44 - Moira


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#21 Guest_NiTessine_*

Posted 20 August 2001 - 07:07 PM

> What category? Disliked NPCs? To judge by most BG2 boards, H'D is one of

> the most popular. I admit that I gave up on the other boards during the

> height of the "Bioware Hates Girls Because They Didn't Give Us

> Haer'Dalis As A Romance" rants.

Category of NPCs who've been thrown with casual death threats... I think I've seen a couple around here.

> *shrug* It's one thing to not like an NPC. (If you've seen my recent

> comments on Aerie, you know I'm the last one qualified to throw stones

> over that.) But Anomen's the only one who's taken enough abuse around here

> that a "Royal Protection Society" has formed around him.

Well, I just don't like Anomen. Its partly because he's a Helmite, and partly because of his lines. They can get pretty irritating. I wish they'd given him a Chaotic Neutral sound set.

And Aerie has that sort of irritating personality. Yes, I realize she's been through a lot of trauma, but that doesn't change the fact she reminds me of Discworld's Magrat, before she took up that axe and butchered the baddies.

- NiTessine, not a Discworld elf


#22 Guest_Oyster Girl_*

Posted 20 August 2001 - 07:31 PM

> Category of NPCs who've been thrown with casual death threats... I think

> I've seen a couple around here.

Hmm. Must have been at some point when I couldn't keep up with the board, or in a thread that I had decided to ignore.

With the H'D fans we once had hanging out here, I'm surprised that didn't blow up like the Anomen and Aerie discussions tried to.

> Well, I just don't like Anomen. Its partly because he's a Helmite, and

Lemme guess. You're a Douglas Niles fan.

*grin* Can't stand him, or most of the FR novels, myself. I usually get the feeling that the novelists know nothing about the Realms or, sometimes, D&D.

> partly because of his lines. They can get pretty irritating.

Can't argue there.

> I wish they'd given him a Chaotic Neutral sound set.

They added one in ToB.

I wish they'd given him a Lawful Good one. Many (if not most) of the extremely annoying interaction in the game have an "AnomenIsKnight" variable requirement; if he's been through his Test, he won't say it. But the soundset still carries those supercilious tones.

> And Aerie has that sort of irritating personality. Yes, I realize she's

> been through a lot of trauma, but that doesn't change the fact she reminds

> me of Discworld's Magrat, before she took up that axe and butchered the

> baddies.

If they had done as good a job showing her growing up as they did with Anomen, I'd be quite fond of her. But in the romances, Anomen will come back and apologize. Aerie never seems to realize what she's saying.


Blue Screen

#23 Guest_NiTessine_*

Posted 20 August 2001 - 07:50 PM

> Hmm. Must have been at some point when I couldn't keep up with the board,

> or in a thread that I had decided to ignore.

> With the H'D fans we once had hanging out here, I'm surprised that didn't

> blow up like the Anomen and Aerie discussions tried to.

I think there are devoted fan bases for all the NPCs in here. I, for one, happen to like Viconia, Edwin and Jan very much.

> Lemme guess. You're a Douglas Niles fan.

Niles... Niles... *Goes through his TSR novel shelf* I can honestly say I don't own a single Douglas Niles novel, and I have no recollections of ever reading a single book of his. Some short stories, probably, though. I like Cunningham, Salvatore, Kemp and Greenwood. Denning and Lowder seem a bit to intent on scattering dismembered bodies and ruined cities across the landscape.

My dislike of Helm comes from him being modeled too closely by the Roman Catholic church in the medieval times. You know, crusades, that business with Maztica, and the Inquisition.

> *grin* Can't stand him, or most of the FR novels, myself. I usually get

> the feeling that the novelists know nothing about the Realms or,

> sometimes, D&D.

Well, inconsistencies do crop up. I don't recall noticing any great ones, at least not in the novels. There were a few sourcebooks declaring Torm to have slain Mystra during the Time of Troubles (For Duty & Deity), and calling Eldenser, a great amethyst wyrm, a brass dragon (The new campaign setting book).

> They added one in ToB.

Cool. I wish I had the money to get it... Well, just a few weeks more...

> If they had done as good a job showing her growing up as they did with

> Anomen, I'd be quite fond of her. But in the romances, Anomen will come

> back and apologize. Aerie never seems to realize what she's saying.

Never did that Anomen romance. Or Aerie, for that matter.

- NiTessine, who has to do his homework


#24 Guest_darkrose_*

Posted 20 August 2001 - 08:03 PM

> Niles... Niles... *Goes through his TSR novel shelf* I can honestly say I

> don't own a single Douglas Niles novel, and I have no recollections of

> ever reading a single book of his. Some short stories, probably, though. I

> like Cunningham, Salvatore, Kemp and Greenwood. Denning and Lowder seem a

> bit to intent on scattering dismembered bodies and ruined cities across

> the landscape.

> My dislike of Helm comes from him being modeled too closely by the Roman

> Catholic church in the medieval times. You know, crusades, that business

> with Maztica, and the Inquisition.

I'm by no means a Realms expert, but from what I've read, it seems like the Helmites=Catholic Church thing is a recent add-on, and isn't really related to what the god or his clergy was intended to be. I have to admit, too, that I find the whole Maztica thing annoying from a "Couldn't they have been a little more original?" mindset, so for the purposes of my stories, it's not really relevant.

> Well, inconsistencies do crop up. I don't recall noticing any great ones,

> at least not in the novels. There were a few sourcebooks declaring Torm to

> have slain Mystra during the Time of Troubles (For Duty & Deity), and

> calling Eldenser, a great amethyst wyrm, a brass dragon (The new campaign

> setting book).

I was very fond of Ms. Cunningham until I read Thornhold. I have yet to hear a satisfactory explanation for how a Tyrran paladin could sell his comrades out to the Zhents and not have Tyr revoke his paladin status on the spot.

And I while I liked the Icewind Dale and the Dark Elf trilogies, most of the other Salvatore I've read has left me cold. Servant of the Shard was downright dull.


Tales from the Copper Coronet

#25 Guest_Oyster Girl_*

Posted 20 August 2001 - 08:21 PM

> I think there are devoted fan bases for all the NPCs in here. I, for one,

> happen to like Viconia, Edwin and Jan very much.

*chuckles* A couple of my least favorite in there, especially Jan. He's ripe for being called out to a duel; I wouldn't be as tolerant as Anomen is of him.

> Niles... Niles... *Goes through his TSR novel shelf* I can honestly say I

> don't own a single Douglas Niles novel, and I have no recollections of

> ever reading a single book of his.

Moonshae Isles and Maztica are both his.

> My dislike of Helm comes from him being modeled too closely by the Roman

> Catholic church in the medieval times. You know, crusades, that business

> with Maztica, and the Inquisition.

*nods* The stuff Niles wrote.

Thing is, away from the Niles-influenced crap, that church comes across quite differently. For my tales, I ignore the novels and use the Faiths and Avatars description, which makes them more like the Tormtar than the medieval RC.

We're still locked into the Maztica events, of course, but I think of them as being just on the edge of acceptable behavior. (I understand there was a murder/human sacrifice and things escalated from there.) Lands of Intrigue suggests Cordell has backed off considerably from his early brutality, so much so that the Council of Six is complaining about his management of New Amn.

> Well, inconsistencies do crop up. I don't recall noticing any great ones,

> at least not in the novels.

*shrug* I've tried my best to forget the novels, so you'd need to find someone else to discuss those. A shame Spectre took off in the last big Anomen blow-up; you two would probably get along great.

> There were a few sourcebooks declaring Torm to have slain Mystra during the

> Time of Troubles (For Duty & Deity), and calling Eldenser, a great amethyst

> wyrm, a brass dragon (The new campaign setting book).

I think the Realms list is compiling those; there have certainly been enough rants about them. :)

> Never did that Anomen romance. Or Aerie, for that matter.

http://infexp.sourceforge.net/

You can look through the dialog trees (and most other files) with this.


Blue Screen

#26 Guest_NiTessine_*

Posted 20 August 2001 - 09:16 PM

> I'm by no means a Realms expert, but from what I've read, it seems like

> the Helmites=Catholic Church thing is a recent add-on, and isn't really

> related to what the god or his clergy was intended to be. I have to admit,

> too, that I find the whole Maztica thing annoying from a "Couldn't

> they have been a little more original?" mindset, so for the purposes

> of my stories, it's not really relevant.

Helmites have been more or less fanatic buggers for a long time... In Al-Qadim, there was a paragraph of the church of "Helam", who'd tried to destroy the faiths of Zakhara. Of course, they were killed or sold to slavery very soon.

And a Helmite paladin in a MUD was responsible for the absolutely worst excuse for a poem I've ever had the displeasure to read... The rhyme was screwy, and of any Realmslore there was not a trace...

> I was very fond of Ms. Cunningham until I read Thornhold. I have yet to

> hear a satisfactory explanation for how a Tyrran paladin could sell his

> comrades out to the Zhents and not have Tyr revoke his paladin status on

> the spot.

Well, he was a fallen paladin. The others just hadn't spotted it, and apparently Tyr had better things to do than point it out. It wasn't that obvious in the novel, but the Rogues' Gallery in Dragon and message board conversations with her cleared that up.

> And I while I liked the Icewind Dale and the Dark Elf trilogies, most of

> the other Salvatore I've read has left me cold. Servant of the Shard was

> downright dull.

Haven't read anything of his past Silent Blade...

-NiTessine, a regular at seven RPG message boards


#27 Guest_NiTessine_*

Posted 20 August 2001 - 09:25 PM

> Moonshae Isles and Maztica are both his.

Nope, haven't read. To me, Niles is merely that guy who wrote the first ever FR product...

> *nods* The stuff Niles wrote.

> Thing is, away from the Niles-influenced crap, that church comes across

> quite differently. For my tales, I ignore the novels and use the Faiths

> and Avatars description, which makes them more like the Tormtar than the

> medieval RC.

But what's the point in making them look more like the Tormtar? No point in having two identical churches, especially as one is LG and the other LN.

> We're still locked into the Maztica events, of course, but I think of them

> as being just on the edge of acceptable behavior. (I understand there was

> a murder/human sacrifice and things escalated from there.) Lands of

> Intrigue suggests Cordell has backed off considerably from his early

> brutality, so much so that the Council of Six is complaining about his

> management of New Amn.

Funny, you'd think they keep quiet as long as they get gold... Then again, I recall the Council was predominantly evil.

> *shrug* I've tried my best to forget the novels, so you'd need to find

> someone else to discuss those. A shame Spectre took off in the last big

> Anomen blow-up; you two would probably get along great.

Spectre? From the Backroom? Yes, we did get along very well. Both of us are experts when it comes to Realmslore. Haven't seen him in a while, though.

> http://infexp.sourceforge.net/ You can look through the dialog trees

> (and most other files) with this.

Thanks.

- NiTessine, who collects dice


#28 Guest_Oyster Girl_*

Posted 20 August 2001 - 09:53 PM

> Helmites have been more or less fanatic buggers for a long time... In

> Al-Qadim, there was a paragraph of the church of "Helam", who'd

> tried to destroy the faiths of Zakhara. Of course, they were killed or

> sold to slavery very soon.

Nope.

"a group of ajami adventurers landed near the City of Power and attempted to claim all ground they spied in the name of their homeland."

Nothing about trying to destroy the faiths of Zakhara.

I'd read that as adventurers looking for land to build a stronghold who happened to include one or more of Helm's faithful, not as a church-sponsored expedition.

> And a Helmite paladin in a MUD was responsible for the absolutely worst

> excuse for a poem I've ever had the displeasure to read... The rhyme was

> screwy, and of any Realmslore there was not a trace...

And this is a reason to dislike everyone connected with that faith? If I used that logic, I'd hate Mystrans because of a jerk player.


Blue Screen

#29 Guest_NiTessine_*

Posted 20 August 2001 - 10:06 PM

> Nope.

> "a group of ajami adventurers landed near the City of Power and

> attempted to claim all ground they spied in the name of their

> homeland."

> Nothing about trying to destroy the faiths of Zakhara.

I stand corrected... Read that thing a year ago, or so.

However, I believe they'd have tried, eventually, after establishing a stronghold.

> And this is a reason to dislike everyone connected with that faith? If I

> used that logic, I'd hate Mystrans because of a jerk player.

Well, I disliked Helm long before I read the poem. The poem did nothing to my opinion, just though I'd mention it. It was really that bad.

- NiTessine, who is very tired


#30 Guest_Oyster Girl_*

Posted 20 August 2001 - 10:54 PM

> But what's the point in making them look more like the Tormtar? No point

> in having two identical churches, especially as one is LG and the other LN.

I didn't say identical, I said closer to the Tormtar than to the RC. Different priorities, certainly, and I frankly have difficulties seeing a clergy with a primarily defensive mandate as logically having any interest in settling new frontiers.

*shrug* I haven't a clue where you got your impression of the Helmites if you've never read Niles, since I've never seen that interpretation of them anywhere else. Unless, of course, it was from a DM who bought the Niles party line.

> Funny, you'd think they keep quiet as long as they get gold... Then again,

> I recall the Council was predominantly evil.

Not enough gold, and Cordell hasn't destroyed New Waterdeep and Fort Flame.

*sigh* This is ground I've been over too, too often. Feel free to have the last word.


Blue Screen

#31 Guest_NiTessine_*

Posted 21 August 2001 - 05:52 AM

> *shrug* I haven't a clue where you got your impression of the Helmites if

> you've never read Niles, since I've never seen that interpretation of them

> anywhere else. Unless, of course, it was from a DM who bought the Niles

> party line.

I've got the Maztica box as a pdf file... Hey, its Niles'. Looks like I've read some of his stuff, after all.

And what Helm did in the Avatar trilogy was hardly any good PR, either.

> Not enough gold, and Cordell hasn't destroyed New Waterdeep and Fort

> Flame.

Doing that would spark a war with Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate...

> *sigh* This is ground I've been over too, too often. Feel free to have the

> last word.

- NiTessine, who had the last word





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