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Game novelisation structures?

Started by Guest_Blue-Inked_Frost_* , Jun 23 2011 05:17 AM

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#21 Guest_VigaHrolf_*

Posted 27 June 2011 - 07:39 PM




I'd also add that the style of explaining-all-the-sidequests could be described as *exuberant*, in some cases: an explosion of one short exciting adventure after another, diversions on the way to solve the final problem. A fun ride. For example, Weyoun's Tankards and Tempers crosses all over and into many random sidequests and crossover cameos and extended parodies, as well as some almost surprising threads of plot. It reads as a less disciplined and polished work than Fury or Fragment, but it doesn't need to be because it's a lot of fun the way it is. About Blood is somewhere between Tankards and Fragment, I think: subquests, but all playing an important role in the parallel development of good and evil parties, staying relatively focused. Although the comparison is difficult there, because it covers much less of the storyline than the other three fic examples.


You cannot possibly know how correct you are. If you knew how many times I've suggested to Wey that his lesbian elves should be more polished, preferably with coconut oil, you'd be astounded. Sadly he has so far been quite contrary about it.


:blink: :blink: :blink:

I see....

#22 Guest_AlphaMonkey_*

Posted 27 June 2011 - 08:09 PM

So here's the thing:

When it comes right down to it, I think there's two major approaches to writing something big based off existing material. There's "writing for plot," and "writing for characters." (In which the plot serves as little more than a vehicle to get us from one important character-exposition moment to the next.) For the most part, I think the really huge projects, the novel-length stuff tends to mostly fall into the "writing for plot" department. And I actually think that on the whole, we've exhausted this area. It's been ten years since the game's release, and while you may find a few holdouts here and there who are going to be playing the games for the first time and then branching out into alternate media to see what's out there, for the rest of us, it's "been there, done that, got the tabards."

Unless you're taking a very significant plot rewrite, there's not a whole lot you can do to tweak the events of the game. Which means that the only way someone can really put a spin on things is to "write for characters," i.e. take the same rehashed events and just gloss over them some, but have the main draw of the work come from the fact that this is a new character and a new perspective that you're writing from. It's through someone else's eyes, someone the collective readership hasn't seen before.

And maybe it's just me, and maybe it's just my experience, but it's why, I think, you tend to see more shorter works being successful than the "long-form" stuff.

Because it feels like the game's plot, as it is, has largely been mined out, but the characters? There's still plenty of material worth exploring, there. And that's why people keep coming back, using new protagonists to interact with those NPCs, putting those characters into settings aside from the tried and true. (Think Baldur's Gate... IN SPACE. Or Baldur's Gate... as a WESTERN. Or Baldur's Gate... in World War II.) I'd even argue that the actual plot of the game is pretty cookie-cutter. It's a fairly typical "You're a nobody who has his village burned down and has to grow up real fast in order to fight the big bad that's threatening to destroy the world." type of deal. Done a thousand times. But it's the cast that keeps us all coming back for more.

Edited by AlphaMonkey, 27 June 2011 - 08:10 PM.

#23 Guest_Jeannette_*

Posted 27 June 2011 - 09:16 PM





I'd also add that the style of explaining-all-the-sidequests could be described as *exuberant*, in some cases: an explosion of one short exciting adventure after another, diversions on the way to solve the final problem. A fun ride. For example, Weyoun's Tankards and Tempers crosses all over and into many random sidequests and crossover cameos and extended parodies, as well as some almost surprising threads of plot. It reads as a less disciplined and polished work than Fury or Fragment, but it doesn't need to be because it's a lot of fun the way it is. About Blood is somewhere between Tankards and Fragment, I think: subquests, but all playing an important role in the parallel development of good and evil parties, staying relatively focused. Although the comparison is difficult there, because it covers much less of the storyline than the other three fic examples.


You cannot possibly know how correct you are. If you knew how many times I've suggested to Wey that his lesbian elves should be more polished, preferably with coconut oil, you'd be astounded. Sadly he has so far been quite contrary about it.


:blink: :blink: :blink:

I see....


rofl! Instructive discussion. My mind is full of images now.... Laufey juggling chainsaws...Laska and Rose covered in coconut oil...... :blink: Trying to avoid overload...... ;P

yeah ... and agree with Alpha's comment below about focus on characters... just don't have time to say more...am at work. ;)

#24 Guest_AlphaMonkey_*

Posted 27 June 2011 - 09:18 PM

Chainsaws, coconut oil, and pretentious literary discussion. It's starting to sound like one of Wey's chapters in here. Now all we need is someone to come streaking through drunk and naked. :P

#25 Guest_Lily M Green_*

Posted 27 June 2011 - 09:34 PM

Chainsaws, coconut oil, and pretentious literary discussion. It's starting to sound like one of Wey's chapters in here. Now all we need is someone to come streaking through drunk and naked. :P


Will slightly squiffy on Perry do?

*Streaks through thread*

ETA: That was my hundredth post! FTW! :D

Edited by Lily M Green, 27 June 2011 - 09:35 PM.

#26 Weyoun

Posted 27 June 2011 - 09:36 PM




I'd also add that the style of explaining-all-the-sidequests could be described as *exuberant*, in some cases: an explosion of one short exciting adventure after another, diversions on the way to solve the final problem. A fun ride. For example, Weyoun's Tankards and Tempers crosses all over and into many random sidequests and crossover cameos and extended parodies, as well as some almost surprising threads of plot. It reads as a less disciplined and polished work than Fury or Fragment, but it doesn't need to be because it's a lot of fun the way it is. About Blood is somewhere between Tankards and Fragment, I think: subquests, but all playing an important role in the parallel development of good and evil parties, staying relatively focused. Although the comparison is difficult there, because it covers much less of the storyline than the other three fic examples.


You cannot possibly know how correct you are. If you knew how many times I've suggested to Wey that his lesbian elves should be more polished, preferably with coconut oil, you'd be astounded. Sadly he has so far been quite contrary about it.


Alright, alright, I'm convinced. Coconut oil will be included in a later chapter. ;)
TnT Enhanced Edition: http://www.fanfictio...rds-and-Tempers

---
Sith Warrior - Master, I can sense your anger.

Darth Baras - A blind, comotose lobotomy-patient could sense my anger!

---

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#27 Laufey

Posted 27 June 2011 - 09:38 PM

*smiles pleasantly*

I knew you'd see it my way.
Rogues do it from behind.

#28 Guest_nazlan_*

Posted 27 June 2011 - 10:04 PM

I'm beginning to wonder if leaving out the coconut oil has hindered me in some important, yet undefinable way. Like leaving the vanilla out of a chocolate cake.

#29 Guest_Lily M Green_*

Posted 27 June 2011 - 10:40 PM

In all seriousness... (Ha!)

I can't tell you how many times I've started replying to this thread; suffice to say it's A Lot and I'm still not sure I can convey my thoughts as eloquently as others here but...

Fan fiction exists primarily because the writer made a very personal connection with a character or characters within a particular fandom. What is impressive about this fandom is that even after ten years there continues to be a steady stream of new material created, taken in ever more imaginative directions, which suggests that - beyond the game experience - people have made that connection with the characters. This is all the more impressive when you consider that, unlike a TV show or a novel series which (potentially) provides hundreds of hours or millions of words of material to play with, all this work has come a relatively small amount of core material. As such I do think that there is still room for the full game novelisation (not that it's something I'd write, for much the same reasons Viga gave) along with the numerous other possibilities.

Incisive and succinct? Not really, but I hope that makes some sense? I think it's a bit of a round of applause (to all the imaginative souls here), really!

Edited by Lily M Green, 27 June 2011 - 10:41 PM.

#30 Guest_Coutelier_*

Posted 27 June 2011 - 11:09 PM

Because it feels like the game's plot, as it is, has largely been mined out, but the characters? There's still plenty of material worth exploring, there. And that's why people keep coming back, using new protagonists to interact with those NPCs, putting those characters into settings aside from the tried and true. (Think Baldur's Gate... IN SPACE. Or Baldur's Gate... as a WESTERN. Or Baldur's Gate... in World War II.) I'd even argue that the actual plot of the game is pretty cookie-cutter. It's a fairly typical "You're a nobody who has his village burned down and has to grow up real fast in order to fight the big bad that's threatening to destroy the world." type of deal. Done a thousand times. But it's the cast that keeps us all coming back for more.


This pretty much sums up how I feel; the main plot has actually always been the least interesting aspect of the game for me. It's the characters that are interesting. At the moment, I'm using it pretty much just as a starting point for characters and then go off and do all kinds of mad crazy stuff, some of which will be designed to probe deeper into the characters psyches. Other stuff has no relevance whatsoever, but is lots of fun. Not that the main plot goes away, but in my case at least there's no urgency since Imoen doesn't have to hurry to save herself.

If I were to pick a style of fiction that resembles fan fiction the most, I would have to say comic books. There might be an overall story arch you plan to unfold gradually over the next year or two, and certain key events that need to happen, but most of the time you're looking at self contained episodes that last about four issues. If you pick up a particular comic book for the first time you can be a bit confused by what's going on; usually after a few issues you start picking it up, or not - that's why it's important that the characters themselves be interesting and/or entertaining enough to hook people in.

#31 Guest_Blue-Inked_Frost_*

Posted 28 June 2011 - 12:45 AM

Fan fiction exists primarily because the writer made a very personal connection with a character or characters within a particular fandom. What is impressive about this fandom is that even after ten years there continues to be a steady stream of new material created, taken in ever more imaginative directions, which suggests that - beyond the game experience - people have made that connection with the characters. This is all the more impressive when you consider that, unlike a TV show or a novel series which (potentially) provides hundreds of hours or millions of words of material to play with, all this work has come a relatively small amount of core material. As such I do think that there is still room for the full game novelisation (not that it's something I'd write, for much the same reasons Viga gave) along with the numerous other possibilities.

Incisive and succinct? Not really, but I hope that makes some sense? I think it's a bit of a round of applause (to all the imaginative souls here), really!


It's very impressive. Ten years, and people still come and read. And, hopefully, mix overly pretentious literary discussion with chainsaw juggling, naked elves, and mildly intoxicated streaking. ;)

Dickens, penny dreadfuls, comics--good analogies to fanfic in all sorts of fandoms. I'm glad as a reader that people post their unfinished works and keep going at them, and envious of people who actually finish. There's the game's own quest structure adding to the serial nature of most of the fanfic.

I like the main plot because I'm a sucker for a well-done archetype--but Baldur's Gate IN SPACE or IN THE WILD WEST (or I believe on FF.Net at least one person's dared 'in an American university'...) is also much fun and I've liked reading it. Sometimes I read and want explanations about the plot, because memory's not perfect and a writer explaining exactly what the ettercaps were doing in Tazok's lair can be much more interesting than playing it. Characters and embroidery to the plot, if you will. I've really liked searching this board for minor character names and finding different explanations of what Slythe or Krystin or Tanova thought they were doing.

#32 Guest_Silrana_*

Posted 28 June 2011 - 05:57 AM

This is all the more impressive when you consider that, unlike a TV show or a novel series which (potentially) provides hundreds of hours or millions of words of material to play with, all this work has come a relatively small amount of core material.


Though, comparatively, not so small. My husband and I were just talking about video games the other night, comparing the different styles. I remember reading some articles a while back that compared the varying amounts of entertainment time you were buying when you got a game. BG2 by itself, if you played all the side quests, was estimated to provide over 300 hours of play at the normal settings. Many shooters and action games, especially those for game consoles, provide as little as 20 hours of original play. So it really isn't surprising that we've gotten so attached to the characters, considering how much time we spent with them!

#33 Guest_Jeannette_*

Posted 28 June 2011 - 01:39 PM


This is all the more impressive when you consider that, unlike a TV show or a novel series which (potentially) provides hundreds of hours or millions of words of material to play with, all this work has come a relatively small amount of core material.


Though, comparatively, not so small. My husband and I were just talking about video games the other night, comparing the different styles. I remember reading some articles a while back that compared the varying amounts of entertainment time you were buying when you got a game. BG2 by itself, if you played all the side quests, was estimated to provide over 300 hours of play at the normal settings. Many shooters and action games, especially those for game consoles, provide as little as 20 hours of original play. So it really isn't surprising that we've gotten so attached to the characters, considering how much time we spent with them!


Replayability has an impact too. I'm at least as attached to the Mass Effect characters as I am to BG's and there is far less play time overall (about 30 hours).

#34 Guest_Lily M Green_*

Posted 29 June 2011 - 12:20 PM

Oh, certainly replayability has a big impact; especially when you consider the number of different party combinations, and of course you can take as little or as much time as you want over the gameplay. - Personally, I'm a no-stone-unturned kind of player - Still, even with that in mind their are a finite number of dialogues and the NPC biogs amount to a couple of paragraphs each, so even though the world is very rich there is a lot of scope for filling in the blanks for the characters within it.

From a personal POV I do really enjoy the stories that take the characters off in a different direction or elaborate greatly on the existing plot, but equally I like to read a well written game walkthrough that makes me care about the fates of the characters.

#35 Guest_Clight_*

Posted 01 July 2011 - 08:11 AM

I have found the game-to-novel conversion question a very interesting one. I've never wanted to write a major story that would not stand on its own, without the reader having played the games (that would seem deficient), nor one that would explore all the sidequests. Of course, a major part of this is that I have mostly been writing about BG1 when what I really was inspired by was Shadows of Amn; I've been doing a kind of prequel I'd like to get properly done but nevertheless also to just get out of the way. BG1 just isn't as interesting, and for me it is in fact the plot as well as the development of a character starting at almost nothing that has been interesting.

I don't really see how the BG1 plot is less linear. The plot is linear enough. Just look at the chapters and what they're about. It's just that there are so many other things to do besides it. I'm not sure you can insert all the aimless wandering in between and still have it work. I'm getting close to the end in my BG1 novelisation, and the structure of my story is the same as that of the game's main plot, just with the addition of a section (equal in standing with the chapters of the original game) about rescuing Dynaheir. Other sidequests are usually just mentioned in a few words if at all, and even that seems to raise a question of why the characters weren't already following the main plot instead, since it's the important, motivated thing for them. I really have no interest in writing anout extra dungeons and things in this story.

So I'm not using the serialised format - well, I haven't been posting this thing here anyway, at least yet - and I'm trying to write a coherent novel structure. It's still on the long side, because that's what I want, not to condense the main plot. In spite of this, my strategy has been to change exactly as much as is needed for the purposes of the story; no less, but also no more. So I'm practically writing a walkthrough, even though I'm focusing on the main plot only, but at the same time adding things that weren't there at all, maybe in spirit but certainly not in detail, and leaving others out where necessary. Certainly fleshing it all out, of course. It's a very interesting exercise. I was particularly pleased with how I managed to juggle a series of only partly linear events in Baldur's Gate, where I felt some sidequests actually warranted full inclusion for once.

I do fear all this has already been done, which is a reason why I'm not even fully certain I want to post my story here at all. I know what I want, but others have already seen it. Unless the "not condensed but still written as a novel, not a serial" approach is novel enough.

As I said, it was Shadows of Amn I was really inspired by. There, I can imagine wanting to include more of the side quests and have fun with the characters. But then again, I'll still want a coherent structure, and I also don't want to be stuck writing it forever. Given how many years it has already taken to even finish (if I do so this summer) writing about BG1, I'm not even sure I can spare the time, though at least I have plenty of material from along the way in existence already for SoA. But I do feel I should get over writing this particular kind of fan fiction and move on to doing more something of my own. Then again, I know it is the full trilogy that I want.

#36 Guest_Blue-Inked_Frost_*

Posted 12 July 2011 - 07:37 AM

I don't really see how the BG1 plot is less linear. The plot is linear enough. Just look at the chapters and what they're about. It's just that there are so many other things to do besides it. I'm not sure you can insert all the aimless wandering in between and still have it work. I'm getting close to the end in my BG1 novelisation, and the structure of my story is the same as that of the game's main plot, just with the addition of a section (equal in standing with the chapters of the original game) about rescuing Dynaheir. Other sidequests are usually just mentioned in a few words if at all, and even that seems to raise a question of why the characters weren't already following the main plot instead, since it's the important, motivated thing for them. I really have no interest in writing anout extra dungeons and things in this story.


Yeah, I find it hard to balance the characters' sense of priority against my own liking for particular sidequest moments and inventing convincing enough Watsonian reasons for the delays. And reasoning that goes along the lines of "We need experience and nifty magic weapons to beat that guy who killed my mentor figure" is basically gaming leaking through. But a lot of the sidequests also have timing attached to them and reasons why they'd be more or less interesting to some particular character. The lessons Charname learns on their journeying do eventually have some impact on their likelihood of surviving the final phase of the plot. :)

I think by 'less linear' I do mean 'more ways to arrange the aimless wandering in between the chapter moments'. And I also don't even mean the aimless part; like your example of rescuing Dynaheir as a chapter, picking a sidequest that's really meaningful to some character and making it a key part of the story that becomes unique to it. That's been done heaps of times in SoA too, but in BG1 there's less detail to start with and I can't help but find the fleshing out interesting.

So I'm not using the serialised format - well, I haven't been posting this thing here anyway, at least yet - and I'm trying to write a coherent novel structure. It's still on the long side, because that's what I want, not to condense the main plot. In spite of this, my strategy has been to change exactly as much as is needed for the purposes of the story; no less, but also no more. So I'm practically writing a walkthrough, even though I'm focusing on the main plot only, but at the same time adding things that weren't there at all, maybe in spirit but certainly not in detail, and leaving others out where necessary. Certainly fleshing it all out, of course. It's a very interesting exercise. I was particularly pleased with how I managed to juggle a series of only partly linear events in Baldur's Gate, where I felt some sidequests actually warranted full inclusion for once.


You should post it, you've talked about it here after all. ;) Different combinations of characters and protagonists and spins on the plot are kind of the reason why there are people still here!
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