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Writing Influences


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#1 Guest_Jean_*

Posted 03 February 2007 - 02:08 PM

Sitting down to make a start on the next bit of Blinding Sight, I found a strange thing happening: without intending it, my sentences were becoming longer; latinate words kept popping into my head unbidden; the omniscient voice began to make little ironic comments on the action; I discovered a sudden urge to incorporate as many semi-colons into the text as possible.

It did not take very long for me to realise that I was trying to do a very bad impression of Charles Dickens. Since finishing another of his novels a couple of days ago, his authorial voice has lodged in my head and doesn't take kindly to being evicted. While I start reading the telephone directory in an effort to tone down my writing, I'd very much like to hear if you've had any similar experiences.

So, who influences you? Have you, like me, ever had problems with being overly receptive to the style of another author? What things have you learnt from authors, whether pros or fanficcers, that you think have improved your own writing?

Thank you.

#2 Guest_jodan-no-ken_*

Posted 03 February 2007 - 06:19 PM

The author who influences me the most is easily Frank Herbert. Politics and deception form a great part of the plot and the plot is sometimes over-ruled by philosophy. I'm a great fan of all the Dune books (including those written by Frank Herbert's son) and this has crept into my writing, in all forms (essays, fiction, poetry et cetera). My English work has many of the elements of Dune in it and my teachers comment on this. And, surprisingly, they like it. If I ever get around to writing and posting some fanfiction on here, I have no doubt it will be much the same story. :twisted:

J

#3 Guest_Clight_*

Posted 08 February 2007 - 05:23 PM

Something of this sort that I don't like is when I accidentally use someone else's phrase - especially when this someone has at least twice been Philip Athans. ;) It's pretty much the same thing that my academic writing teacher described in happening in unconscious plagiarism; I just don't notice something hasn't come from my own head originally. But why Athans?? I mean, Terry Pratchett, that I understand, but Athans, that's almost like unintentinally quoting "The Eye of Argon".

#4 Guest_Ananke_*

Posted 09 February 2007 - 01:22 PM

Ah... How to say this...

It's nothing to be proud of - in fact, it makes me terribly ashamed of all that I've ever written - but it happens to me all the time. My writing is terribly derivative: once I read a book, I find it incredibly easy to write a fanfic for that book, mostly because I tend to unconsciously assimilate an author's lexis and style...

It's a good thing in fan writing, because then I get praised for keeping the characters in character - but it's a terrible, terrible thing when I'm trying to be original, and suddenly, on the edit-read of a chapter/story, I find myself MST-ing, as in 'hey, this is a motive from Dune'. 'This scene's from The Godfather'. 'This one is from Tolkien' and so on, even when I honestly wasn't thinking of those works when I was writing! It came to the point when, while I was writing a multi-chapter fic in another fandom, I wrote a chapter where:
-the atmosphere is stiff and suffocating, both literally and not - lots of ash in the air;
-the main character encounters a tribe of creatures who used to be sentient, but devolved into beasts;
-led by an old acquaintance of his - proud, elitist and yet intelligent and compassionate - who has gone crazy;
-they both fight, but during that fight, said character has a final revelation and a moment of lucidity, just before dying...

And, yeah, here is the key point: the name of an important artefact in that fandom is... the Heart of Darkness. And that was precisely what I intended to call the chapter. Because of the ash in the air and whatnot. ;)

And... um, the way I wrote that story was really Conrad-esque, because that's what the vocabulary/style of that fandom is.

So, in short, I wrote a chapter called Heart of Darkness which followed to a great extent (the above are just some points of coincidence) the Heart of Darkness. And I did it completely unwittingly, never once having connected the title, the content and the original story. And having seen Apocalypse Now only once, several years before - and having read HoD also only once, also several years before. (And it's not even that I remembered it well, because I didn't like it. I preferred the film.)

Ah. What's more? I wrote a Sandman/Harry Potter crossover whose each chapter is in a different style. Because that's what Gaiman did in Sandman, see? Employed a multitude of styles. So, I managed to mimic even that... :)

It always hurts, of course. My writing is an attempt to stop being merely an analyst, or, at best, an associator of ideas, and start being a more creative person - but, in the end, it always boils down to completely self-aware knowledge that I'm repeating someone else and, eventually, precisely what I'm repeating of someone else's, and of whom. I... sometimes think that my case may be contained in that quote of Nietzsche's that "Many a person has not become an original philosopher for having too good a memory". I remember too much, and a lot of it I remember completely unconsciously - and only later, upon re-reading, remember consciously just whom I have lifted this-or-that from. If I didn't remember as much, perhaps I would go on being a mediocre copycat, but at least I would be happier not being aware of that...

That's sort of why I like Haer'Dalis. He's so utterly derivative from start to end, so completely unauthentic, that I can both commiserate with him as a fellow creature and write him without fear. ;)

Ah. Yesterday, I did one of those 'Net quizzes, called, "Which book are you?" Turned out that I'm Virginia Woolf's 'Orlando'--
(goes away, thinking dark thoughts about Ishmael)

#5 Guest_Jean_*

Posted 09 February 2007 - 06:27 PM

Thank you all for replying. To Clight: Consolations! Are you sure it's Athans, or are you just using a common phrase that Athans also happens to use?

Ah. Yesterday, I did one of those 'Net quizzes, called, "Which book are you?" Turned out that I'm Virginia Woolf's 'Orlando'--


I think we took the same quiz and got the same result. (I can't see there being many net quizzes with 'Orlando' as the answer). Since I've only ever read Mrs Dalloway by Woolf, I don't know if it's accurate.

I don't find being derivative all that worrying, since I think all writing is on some level. The back of my Fordyce edition of Catullus is packed with speculation over whether he took a particular phrase from Callimachus, or whether Virgil adapted a line from him.

That's sort of why I like Haer'Dalis. He's so utterly derivative from start to end, so completely unauthentic, that I can both commiserate with him as a fellow creature and write him without fear. ;)


Aw, but Haer'Dalis is authentically inauthentic! And on another note: Why the apostrophe?

#6 Guest_Ananke_*

Posted 09 February 2007 - 07:49 PM

I don't find being derivative all that worrying, since I think all writing is on some level. The back of my Fordyce edition of Catullus is packed with speculation over whether he took a particular phrase from Callimachus, or whether Virgil adapted a line from him.


Oh, of course most writing is derivative.

And self-aware writing is fun in its own way. (That particular Heart of Darkness-themed chapter, for example, I ended up converting into a conscious adaptation of HoD into that universum. After carefully pointing out just what I was doing.)

But when I do not set out to writing fanfic/ conscious adaptation/ reference/ homage... there's always that little traitorous voice in the back of my head that asks just how further I can go... And, of course, on the other hand, that terribly arrogant, sarcastic voice of the real writer smirking and sneering at the wanna-be hack who'd like to write, but just simply does not have the talent...

From chapter 2 on, Siblings is influenced - or 'influenced' - by Dorothy Dunnett; she wrote her Lymond just so that you never know what to think of him, and I love it so much that I'm trying this a little bit with Sarevok. (Have you ever read her, by the way?) That's the conscious part. I'd love to be able to write in her style, though...

Let's take this opening line, for example...

On the day that his grannie was killed by the English, Sir William Scott the Younger of Buccleuch was at Melrose Abbey, marrying his aunt.


Or one of my favourite lines:

Then, since he could not stand any longer, nor find, groping, polysyllables of suitable majesty for any conceivable coda, the Voevoda Bolshoia of Russia subsided, not without grace, on his bed and from there, quite unwittingly, to the floor.


So... crazy!

Aw, but Haer'Dalis is authentically inauthentic! And on another note: Why the apostrophe?


Um. Which apostrophe? ;) The one between Haer and Dalis, or are you talking more metaphorically right now and here?

#7 Guest_Jean_*

Posted 09 February 2007 - 08:37 PM

I haven't read Dorothy Dunnett, no, but she sounds like a lot of fun. About Haer'Dalis and his apostrophe - that was just me being silly. ;) (Yes, by the way, it is the apostrophe in his name.) I've been reading Diana Wynne Jones's 'Tough Guide to Fantasyland' and it was rather amusing on the subject of apostrophes in the naming conventions of the fantasy genre.

NAMES are very potent in Fantasyland. People with no Names always get killed (unless they are powerfully Evil and have a Name That Must Not Be Spoken, in which case they get killed anyway, but a lot later). Of those who have Names, almost nobody tells anyone else what there Name really is, for fear of its being used in a SPELL to enslave them. MAGIC USERS have to be particularly careful of this. But MERCENARIES also tend to call themselves things like Bald Eagle and Silversword, presumably for the same reason (or maybe because their true Names are Joe Coward and Jill Doe). MISSING HEIRS are always called Names like Triggs and Dumpling: when they find their names are really Prince Tornalorn or Princess Diore, they stop being Missing. This shows how important Names can be. AVERAGE FOLK, SAGES and some Tourists, however, adopt the expedient of cutting out half their Names and filling the gaps with APOSTROPHES, as in Ka'a Orto'o. Then, unless you know what was in the gap, you can't enslave them. This is the true reason why so many Names in Fantasyland contain Apostrophes.

#8 Guest_Clight_*

Posted 10 February 2007 - 07:42 AM

To Clight: Consolations! Are you sure it's Athans, or are you just using a common phrase that Athans also happens to use?

Not entirely sure. Nevertheless, in the two cases I can remember it was both the phrase and (on a very simple level) the idea behind it, what was happening that it referred to.

#9 Guest_Ananke_*

Posted 10 February 2007 - 11:30 AM

I've been reading Diana Wynne Jones's 'Tough Guide to Fantasyland' and it was rather amusing on the subject of apostrophes in the naming conventions of the fantasy genre.


That's one book I'd love to read, but never had the means to. ;)

Apostrophes are fun! <-- said by someone whose native language admits no apostrophes at all, except for use with foreign names. ;)

Maybe H'D was named by the same person who wrote that text about 'your party member's heads/hitpoints/something' and called Nalia's castle the 'de'Arnise Keep'? I had no idea that it was the 'de'Arnise Keep' until I installed the English version of the game, verrry recently. It's d'Arnise in the Polish version. Which, incidentally, does make sense to me...

But then, the Polish H'D has a verry different voice from Michael Bell, too. Much more youthful, for one thing. And, somehow, much more fun, too. I'm not sure if I'd like him half as much as I do now if I had first heard him as he is!

Which leads me back to writing influences: It's actually funny, how much the actor's voices influence the perception of the characters. I've never thought of Aerie as whiny, because in the Polish game, she *isn't*. She's hesitant, girlish, a bit too sweet, but *never* whiny. Anomen is about half as obnoxious as the English one, while Edwin has a high, nasal voice, far from those funny (in English) rolling r's. The Polish Minsc, otoh, is utterly, completely unbearable.

Ah. There's one thing I meant to ask you before and forgot:

Since I've only ever read Mrs Dalloway by Woolf, I don't know if it's accurate.

But you do know what Orlando's about?
(I haven't read it either, btw, only seen that weird Tilda Swinton film...)

#10 Guest_Jeannette_*

Posted 10 February 2007 - 04:17 PM

It depends upon what I'm writing of course, but when I was writing BG fanfic I found myself being heavily influenced by Jane Austen. Much of what I used to write was about Haer Dalis who seems to lend himself naturally to a play on manners, customs and words. :shock:

j.

#11 Guest_Cel_*

Posted 10 February 2007 - 05:17 PM

I am not aware of positive influences, but I could name an author or two who's been a negative influence - in the sense that I've learned to avoid certain mannerisms they used in writing that irked the hell out of me when reading their stuff.

#12 Guest_Jeannette_*

Posted 10 February 2007 - 06:54 PM

I am not aware of positive influences, but I could name an author or two who's been a negative influence - in the sense that I've learned to avoid certain mannerisms they used in writing that irked the hell out of me when reading their stuff.


*snicker* Yeah me too. I have to admit I have a fear of exclamation points thanks to Anne McCaffery. :shock:

j

#13 Guest_Ursula_*

Posted 11 February 2007 - 06:07 AM

Hmm, this is an interesting question. I'll have to think about it some more.

I don't read a lot of literature nowadays. I mostly stick with non-fiction. The writer who I find has the most unwholesome effect on my literary attempts, though, is...myself. A good amount of my current job is spent composing official documents and correspondence in a crisp, concise, ultra-impersonal style. This style, however, does not work too well in a narrative piece, or anything intended for entertainment.

Something I've noticed as well is that the music I listen to will have an impact on how I write my fiction. This is especially true if the artists I'm listening to do *not* speak the same variant of Am-Eng that I do. The dialog comes out all skewed. This is especially true with Country/Western artists like George Strait--hey, if I can't speak straight after listening to one of his songs, what makes me think I'll be able to write straight either?

#14 Guest_Clovis_*

Posted 12 February 2007 - 10:52 PM

Hrm, now that's an interesting question.

If there's one author I consciously try to take cues from, it's Ursula K. LeGuin. I've always admired her ability to convey so much with so few words. There's not a single wasted word in her writing. I also favor her heavy use of cultural anthropology in her novels. She creates some of the most vivid worlds imaginable.


Beyond LeGuin, I would say Michael Moorcock has been something of an influence, at least in my primary fanfic. When I set out to write my main serial (Farthest Dawn), it was with the express intent to take the Bhaalspawn Saga in a darker, more tragic direction. Few people do "damned heroes" better than Moorcock, and his Elric Saga often helps me get into the right mindset when I'm feeling stuck on a plot point.

#15 Guest_Jean_*

Posted 13 February 2007 - 11:02 AM

But you do know what Orlando's about?
(I haven't read it either, btw, only seen that weird Tilda Swinton film...)


In a vague sort of way, after checking that source of undisputable reliability, Wikipedia.

Reading everyone's response has been very interesting. I expect that in future I'll be scrutinising Attic fanfiction for traces of Austen, LeGuin and others mentioned. :twisted:

#16 Guest_InconspicuousAcuity_*

Posted 20 February 2007 - 03:38 PM

Interesting topic.

Well, I happen to be studying literature (as a whole) in university. And on a History class there, we were told this has been the ordeal of all post-modern authors, no matter if they worked in prose or poetry. These authors strongy believed everything that could be written had already been done by someone else and therefore they couldn't really be original anymore, even if they tried. And as a consequence of that, intertextuality and quotes started making their appearance frequently. Even more than that: new species/genres - hybrids, to say so - like the well-known parody, were a result of that same phenomenon.

Are we some of these authors? I'd say we are.

Personally, I avoid reading anything even remotely similar to something I'm currently writing and haven't planned in detail. Because I know I'll subconsciously 'steal' part of that story if I like it.

But I have Tolkien's obsession for landscape detail and for mythology. I'm one of the few people I know who never, *ever* groaned when those long paragraphs started coming up in a row in both 'The Lord of the Rings' and 'Silmarillion'. I know we could have lived without so much in the way of explanations and punctilious descriptions, but I actually enjoyed them immensely.

Then again, I steal a great part of my character-humor from Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman, being totally in love with creations of theirs like Zifnab (in the 'Death Gate' cycle) or Simkin (in the 'Darksword'). Aside from that, I often find a lot of social aspects in my story remind me of those from Tom Arden's 'Orokon' series.




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